c/o electronicintifada.net
Over the past few weeks, The Argus spoke to leaders and members of four activist groups that confront the Israel-Palestine conflict: Wesleyan United with Israel, J Street U, Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), and Students for Justice in Palestine (SJP). In doing so, we sought to understand the state of Israel-Palestine activism on campus, the tension that has surfaced in its past, the issues with which it deals in the present, and the conversations it hopes to continue in the future. Meet the key players here.
The Shifting Landscape
Last year, when Rebecca Sussman ’18 visited campus during WesFest, she struck up a conversation with a student about the conflict in the Middle East. When Sussman used the word “Zionist,” the atmosphere became tense.
“You can’t say that here,” Sussman remembers the student telling her. “It’s a dirty word.”
Sussman hopes that this will soon no longer be the case. This fall, she, along with first-year students Rachel Alpert, Elisa Greenberg, and Matthew Renetzky, reinstated Wesleyan United with Israel, a pro-Israel group that supports a two-state solution and opposes the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) movement. Tasked with building a new membership, they remain frustrated by perceptions about what it means to support Israel.
Renetzky emphasized that Wesleyan United with Israel is more complicated than right-wing stereotypes often suggest.
“I’m going to borrow a metaphor from Alan Elsner,” Renetzky said. “There’s a difference between being a fan and a cheerleader. As a cheerleader…you can be losing 50-3, and you’re still cheering the team on…. Or you can be a fan, who feels passionately about the team but who is still willing to criticize [them] and see them for what they are. We’re almost hyper-realistic. We’re acutely aware of every problematic thing, but that doesn’t mean we still can’t support this country.”
Maya Berkman ’16, a current leader of J Street U at Wesleyan and northeast regional co-chair for J Street U, pointed out that the differences among the four groups on campus concerned with the Israeli-Palestinian conflict are not always as great as they seem.
“I think there’s a lot of overlap,” Berkman said. “The students who are engaged with this issue, or at least seriously engaged with this issue, [compose] a pretty small group of people, and you start to recognize the same faces at various events…. I think on such a small campus it’s problematic when we try to divide ourselves so definitely between the different groups.”
According to Berkman, J Street U is relatively centrist, a position that appeals to her because of its capacity for nuance. J Street, the parent organization of the college chapters, is a pro-Israel group that supports a two-state solution.
“I think having our political focus being the establishment of a two-state solution does put us kind of in the center in a way that’s unique, because we encompass students who fall to our right and our left,” she said.
To J Street U’s left stands the newly established campus chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace (JVP), which, among other things, calls for an end to the Israeli occupation of the West Bank, Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem. Yael Horowitz ’17, a founding member, noted that although JVP has a strong relationship with Studens for Justice in Palestine (SJP) and a neutral one with J Street U, tension exists between JVP and Wesleyan United with Israel.
“That stems from deep ideological differences,” she said. “I think [Wesleyan United with Israel] also [has] problems with the way we operate. Making Jewish spaces political is a problem [for them], and I think us not turning away from politics and from the issue is the opposite of what they do in a lot of ways, because they’re trying to celebrate culture without turning towards politics. That’s an obvious point of tension.”
Moreover, Horowitz added that although the conflict in the Middle East is far removed geographically, it is closer than many people would like to believe.
“The occupation of Palestine is not happening at Wesleyan, but Wesleyan students are complicit in it, and are always in a lot of ways unaware of it,” she said.
Many choose ignorance in pursuit of comfort, said Horowitz, but JVP aims to be a source of education and discomfort, especially within Jewish spaces.
“I think success has to be measured in the amount of people that you reach and the amount of people who start actually thinking critically about it,” she said.
Still to the left of JVP is SJP, whose members declined to be interviewed for this article.
“We’ve decided we’re not going to do any direct interviews because our group has a lot of diverse opinions and we can’t reduce ourselves to one voice (even if that voice isn’t officially a spokesperson),” wrote SJP member Alice Markham-Cantor ’18 in an email to The Argus.
According to the national SJP website, the organization supports the BDS movement and denounces the Israeli occupation.
Boycotts, Protests, Vandalism
Last spring, the Wesleyan Student Assembly (WSA) passed a resolution in favor of joining the BDS movement, which, according to its website, campaigns globally to withhold support from Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights. Horowitz believes that the hearings began necessary conversations on campus and, ultimately, to the establishment of a University chapter of JVP.
“It was pretty clear to me that there needed to be an organization that talked specifically about Jewish students’ relationship to this issue, because often times it’s harder for Jewish students to let go of things that they’ve been taught their whole life and realize the reality of the situation on the ground,” Horowitz said.
Passing the resolution was an important symbolic stance, but Horowitz has been disappointed by the WSA’s lack of enforcement of the ban.
“The passing of the resolution itself was pretty powerful, to say that the student body stands behind divestment,” she said. “The WSA is flawed as an organization because there’s no way to keep them accountable to the resolutions that they pass…and they know it. That’s been one of the challenges with divestment, is just getting people to follow through on things they commit to do.”
Although Berkman agreed with Horowitz that the proposition produced necessary dialogue on campus, she remarked that the discussions revealed a problematic dynamic.
“I think it was a big lesson to us at J Street and really eye-opening to understand the dynamics at that time,” she said. “It was also frustrating, because it was the end of the semester…and then it kind of dropped, and everyone leaves for break. I think you see that quite a bit on campus. These big issues rise up, there’s some sort of chaos around it, and the semester ends, and everyone goes home. Some people are left upset, while most people just forget.”
In November 2014, International House, Turath House, and the Bayit hosted the International Conflict Panel Discussion Series, attempting to continue that dialogue, among others. The first event in the series sought to involve members of Wesleyan United with Israel, J Street U, and SJP. However, Renetzky, the representative for Wes with Israel, was disappointed to learn that SJP had declined to participate.
“It was going to be awesome to show that these three groups can work together and talk about a really heated thing,” Renetzky said.
In March, SJP members elaborated on their decision in a Wespeak titled, “Israel’s Apartheid State,” in which they wrote:
“We believe that dialogue on this campus about Palestine/Israel should not be ‘normalizing’—meaning we should not accept Israeli state actions as ‘normal’ or appropriate.”
Horowitz commented on this issue of normalization.
“I think you can’t expect voices to be heard through dialogue, because that normalizes the occupation as a conflict as opposed to the occupation that is illegal of a land that doesn’t belong to Israel,” she said. “To expect to hear all of those voices when you sit down for dialogue isn’t going to happen.”
Instead, Horowitz proposes that people seek out these marginalized voices.
“People need to be educating themselves more to hear these voices, and going into spaces where they might be uncomfortable,” she said.
That panel was only one of a few incidents that contributed to unease between members of Wesleyan United wih Israel and SJP. In February, Wesleyan United with Israel hosted a free Israeli Late Night. Days before the event, an SJP member posted an article about Israel’s appropriation of Palestinian and North African cuisine to the Facebook event page.
“They also flyered outside our event saying, ‘The hummus is free, but Palestine isn’t,’” Sussman said.
According to Renetzky, posters that Wesleyan United with Israel had hung in Usdan to advertise for the event were vandalized. He was discouraged by the animosity that these attacks revealed.
“They crossed out ‘Israeli’ and wrote ‘Palestine,’” Renetzky said. “Then they crossed out ‘Israeli’ and wrote ‘Fascism.’”
Sussman was also upset by the vandalism, which she believes limited the group’s ability to express its aims.
“While we believe so vehemently that everyone should feel comfortable voicing their opinion…and I totally believe that SJP should exist…I just think it’s sad that they don’t seem to feel the same way, when I really consider that so important,” she said.
Alpert believes that the vandalism incident is suggestive of more widespread animosity towards Wesleyan United with Israel.
“The fact that we can’t hold an event celebrating the culture—just the culture; we were not defending any of Israel’s military actions—we think is problematic on this campus,” she said.
Horowitz explained that protesters handed out flyers because of the difficulty of disentangling Israeli culture from politics.
“You can’t separate Israeli culture from what’s happening there,” she said. “I think Wes with Israel is a political group, and to get people to come to celebrate the culture and not own up to the politics being espoused is not an honest way to talk about culture.”
The Wall as a Metaphor
Israeli Apartheid Week is an annual, international series of events that, according to its website, aims to raise awareness of Israel’s apartheid policies toward Palestinians and to build support for the BDS movement. In early March, members of SJP collaborated on the aforementioned Wespeak, “Israel’s Apartheid State,” to explain its decision to erect a portable wall, which stood in various locations including Olin Library and Usdan.
“In the words of Wesleyan United with Israel, ‘You are going to hear a lot in the coming weeks. You are going to hear that Israel is an apartheid state,’” the Wespeak reads. “This accusation is part of the message of Apartheid Week, a university-based movement that seeks to raise awareness about Israel’s apartheid policies towards the Palestinians.”
SJP’s Wespeak referenced another Wespeak that the Wesleyan United with Israel founders had published two weeks prior, titled “Apartheid and Genocide in the Middle East,” in which they contested the usage of words such as “apartheid” and “genocide.”
“We think those words misrepresent the situation,” Greenberg said.
Renetzky was unsettled by the wall and the words spray-painted on it, which included “End Israeli apartheid” and “WALL WALL WALL.”
“I’m really upset by it,” he said. “‘Genocide’ is such a loaded word. There’s been genocide in Uganda; there’s been the Armenian genocide; there’s been the Holocaust. To call what’s happening in Israel genocide is wrong. It delegitimizes and minimizes so many terrible things that have happened in the world and are happening in the world.”
SJP’s Wespeak explains that its members chose to include the word “apartheid” intentionally.
“The word ‘apartheid’ does carry a lot of weight,” the article reads. “In the case of Israel, it represents many of the realities for Palestinians living under illegal Israeli occupation, and although the situation in Israel/Palestine is not identical to that of South African Apartheid, this vocabulary provides us with a means of understanding the occupation and the wars on Gaza.”
Renetzky, however, maintains that the portable wall does not tell the full story.
“They put up this big concrete wall in Usdan, in Olin, wherever,” he said. “They’ll tell you, ‘It’s this long, it’s this big, these are the 10 reasons that it’s oppressive.’ What they’re not going to tell you is that 90 percent of that wall is chain-link fence. It’s not all huge concrete barriers with watch towers. And what they’re especially not going to tell you why that wall is in place. In some areas, there were people from within the West Bank, snipers, who were shooting at Israeli citizens. So in response to these snipers, Israel built up a security, protection wall. So, wall goes down, who’s to say snipers don’t come back?”
Renetzky believes that not telling the full story allows SJP to more easily rally support more easily.
“It’s so easy to be like, ‘Sign this petition!’” he said. “‘It’s for human rights.’ But…my mother’s Israeli…and I have a lot of family who lives there as well. I hear the narrative of, ‘This is my life, this is my country, there are missiles being fired at me all the time, and we need these things.’”
According to Horowitz, however, the point of the wall is to generate horror and discomfort.
“The wall is a really powerful educational tool because it shocks people and it makes people uncomfortable in a way that is going to make them search for more information,” she said. “It is nothing more than a fact that [the] wall exists, and the realities of that wall exist, and so it’s really hard for people to disagree with the wall. It’s a representation of something that is happening in our world.”
Future Visions, Conversations
Despite the tension that has surfaced, leaders of the groups who were interviewed are optimistic about the degree of engagement on campus.
“I think that having [Wesleyan United with Israel] on campus enriches the dialogue even for people who don’t agree,” Greenberg said. “There are a lot of people who came up to us and said, ‘I’m part of J Street, and I don’t align with you politically, and I think this is great. And I think it’s great that you’re doing this.’”
For Greenberg, continued engagement is a goal in and of itself.
“I hope that people continue to engage with us, not necessarily that we change their political beliefs,” she said. “I engaged with a lot of different groups and formulated my beliefs, which was really cool. I think that going forward, we want people to know that we exist, that we are approachable, and we want dialogue. We want people who have pro-Israel beliefs to feel comfortable saying that, but we also want them to say, ‘But I don’t agree with this one thing [Israel] did.’”
University President Michael Roth said that he appreciates the diversity of opinions on campus, advocating for a high level of discourse among students.
“Oy vey!” Roth said. “I think that trying to understand the issues in that conflict, and how one might be able to have an impact on American policy or what goes on there, is a really good question to ask oneself. Raising the intellectual level of understanding about the issues of the occupation, of the dynamic of violence and war in the region, Israel’s security concerns, and human rights issues—there’s a whole range of things to think about, that people are politely and intellectually disagreeing about.”
Roth aims to foster an atmosphere in which students can engage with this issue safely and deeply.
“I see my role as president, as opposed to…just a citizen, is to help the dynamic of sometimes intense, sometimes conflictual conversation and debate, but also to make sure that people don’t feel threatened, that they have some protection if things get too intense, that they’re not going to be ostracized, and they’re certainly not physically at risk,” Roth said. “I’m proud of the community that people can debate vigorously, but stay in the world of discourse rather than violence.”
University Jewish Chaplain Rabbi David Leipziger Teva noted that this issue is especially contentious because it affects many students personally and ethically. Like Roth, he advocates for inclusivity and open-mindedness.
“We should all keep in mind that students who are active in the various Israel/Palestine groups on campus are often motivated by ethical values of justice and human rights as well as from personal identification with a geographical place that is close to their hearts and the hearts of their ancestors,” Teva said. “Our challenge is to create intellectually sophisticated conversations where students can be exposed to alternative political narratives without being labeled or disempowered.”
There might be no conclusion or resolution, but Berkman is confident that students are capable of participating in increasingly constructive conversations.
72 Comments
Ridiculous
““I think you can’t expect voices to be heard through dialogue, because that normalizes the occupation as a conflict as opposed to the occupation that is illegal of a land that doesn’t belong to Israel,” she said. “To expect to hear all of those voices when you sit down for dialogue isn’t going to happen.”
Instead, Horowitz proposes that people seek out these marginalized voices.
“People need to be educating themselves more to hear these voices, and going into spaces where they might be uncomfortable,” she said.”
Does this girl think before she speaks, or does her mouth just form sounds? This is the very epitome of a hypocritical contradiction, further exposing the idiocy of refusing to engage due to ‘normalization.’ Grow up and realize that in the real world you don’t get to only talk with people you agree with.
Dan Craig
This is right how the Hamas Terrorist propaganda playbook, and the students too the bait hook line and sinker. The academics are following an age old thought process of anti-semitism and jewish hatred just like the academics did in Nazi germany following the Hitler leadership in kicking jewish academic out of higher learning. Let me make this really clear you are empowering Hamas, Hezbollah, ISIS and Fatah terrorist organizations by joining up with BDS. They kill innocent men, women and children, behead people in video’s and put children in explosive vests. If you swallow this propaganda machine just like the Nazi’s set out you are going down a very well traveled path of anti-semitism.
Fisnik Maqedonci
And thats why you support a democratic country opposing apartheid against Palestine and killing innocent children and women for over 50years. Kidnapping children in the middle of the night just so they can go to jail.
Every mans rights is to protect its family and its country from a terror nation with racism as a solid ground. Open your eyes and maybe then you can see the problem and solution.
Stop the killing and the occupation and then we can have peace.
The rights that’ the Israel have, its time that the Palestine people kan also have a taste of it.
A taste of freedom and security, especially for the children, whom are the main targets.
Respect mankind where ever it may be.
Dan Craig
If you have a problem with killing , then Israel is not your problem
“Some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000,
or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of
every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who
perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”
Arab-Israeli Fatalities Rank 49th
ANONJD
you’re a retard
http://www.ifamericansknew.org
HOW DO YOU LIKE ME NOW? GET OWNED SON
Dan Craig
Feel free to support the next terrorist state and feel free to move there. There will be a huge fight for control between PA, Hamas, ISIS , alQueda fatah, and Hezbollah you won’t have to worry about Israelis because Arabs love killing Arabs that is a statistical fact
ivanpope
You’re just making those numbers up. I note you always leave out the number of Palestinians killed by Israelis.
Dan Craig
Nope I looked them. Try using Google. Dude I am not even counting the numbers of Palestinians killed in Jordan and Lebanon by Lebanese and Jordanians. No matter what I tell you you won’t believe it.
Here let me add it up for you:
The Logic is very simple:
The Paris Charlie Hebdo killers was Muslim
The ISIS video Beheadings was Muslim
The Shoe Bomber was a Muslim
The Beltway Snipers were Muslims
The Fort Hood Shooter was a Muslim
The underwear Bomber was a Muslim
The U-S.S. Cole Bombers were Muslims
The Madrid Train Bombers were Muslims
The Bali Nightclub Bombers were Muslims
The London Subway Bombers were Muslims
The Moscow Theatre Attackers were Muslims
The Boston Marathon Bombers were Muslims
The Pan-Am flight #93 Bombers were Muslims
The Air France Entebbe Hijackers were Muslims
The Iranian Embassy Takeover, was by Muslims
The Beirut U.S. Embassy bombers were Muslims
The Libyan U.S. Embassy Attack was by Musiims
The Buenos Aires Suicide Bombers were Muslims
The Israeli Olympic Team Attackers were Muslims
The Kenyan U.S, Embassy Bombers were Muslims
The Saudi, Khobar Towers Bombers were Muslims
The Beirut Marine Barracks bombers were Muslims
The Besian Russian School Attackers were Muslims
The first World Trade Center Bombers were Muslims
The Bombay & Mumbai India Attackers were Muslims
The Achille Lauro Cruise Ship Hijackers were Muslims
The September 11th 2001 Airline Hijackers were Muslims
Are you capable of seeing a trend or pattern here?
Think of it:
Buddhists living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Christians = No Problem
Hindus living with Jews = No Problem
Christians living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Baha’is = No Problem
Baha’is living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Sikhs = No Problem
Sikhs living with Hindus = No Problem
Hindus living with Baha’is = No Problem
Baha’is living with Christians = No Problem
Christians living with Jews = No Problem
Jews living with Buddhists = No Problem
Buddhists living with Shintos = No Problem
Shintos living with Atheists = No Problem
Atheists living with Confucians = No Problem
Confusians living with Hindus = No Problem
Muslims living with Hindus = Problem
Muslims living with Buddhists = Problem
Muslims living with Christians = Problem
Muslims living with Jews = Problem
Muslims living with Sikhs = Problem
Muslims living with Baha’is = Problem
Muslims living with Shintos = Problem
Muslims living with Atheists = Problem
MUSLIMS LIVING WITH MUSLIMS = BIG PROBLEM
Dan Craig
Palestinians Killed by Palestinians since 1948: 2,014
Israeli’s Killed by Palestinian Terrorism since 1948: 3,791
There is a statistical higher probability of a Palestinian being
killed by a muslim than any other entity.
“Some 11,000,000 Muslims have been violently killed since 1948, of which 35,000,
or 0.3 percent, died during the sixty years of fighting Israel, or just 1 out of
every 315 Muslim fatalities. In contrast, over 90 percent of the 11 million who
perished were killed by fellow Muslims.”
America Firster
Palestinians directly killed by Israel since 1948: At least 30,000 — not counting the large numbers who have died indirectly due to Israel’s actions.
Dan Craig
Israeli’s Killed/Wounded by Palestinians since 1860 : 24,969/36,260
Palestians’s Killed/Wounded by Israeli’ssince 1860 : 91,105/78,038
America Firster
Since 1860? You do know Israel came into being in 1948? I am curious as to the source of these numbers. You do know the number of wounded in any conflict always exceeds the number killed (except in the numbers you posted)?
Dan Craig
Yes 1860. A total of 23,137 men and women have been killed defending the land of Israel
since 1860, the year that the first Jewish settlers left the secure walls of Jerusalem to build new neighborhoods.
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/casualty_table.html
The stats are correct. Yes more killed than wounded in one instance. Apparently the medical care they received from their Arab/Palestinian Dr.’s did not outpace their deaths.
Since the end of the War of Independence (1948), 2,446 Israelis have been killed in terrorist attacks – 2 since Yom Hazikaron (Israeli Memorial Day) 2013. Over the course of the year 2012-2013, 92 members of the security forces – police, IDF soldiers, security personnel and veterans – were killed in, or died as a result of injuries inflicted from, service to the Israeli state.
There has never been a Palestinian state just for the record.
America Firster
Defending a nation that would not come into being for another 88 years? A few decades before Herzl even came up with Zionism? This is the level of “thinking” one encounters when dealing with these poor dupes of the Zionists. No point in trying to reach them
Dan Craig
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over.
William Tecumseh Sherman
America Firster
Ah. The old war is cruel apology for Israel’s crimes against humanity. Yet if some crude, nonguided, unarmed missiles come from Gaza and fall harmlessly into Israel, the heavens are falling. I understand you have been brainwashed, but how can you not see the insane double standard you apply here?
Dan Craig
War is War. In terms of war 2,000 dead is a skirmish or limited engagement. When attacked , defense becomes offense. I am sure that Hamas is amassing better weapons as we read this. You can count on the next volley from PA, Hamas,Fatah, ISIS and Hezbollah, and Al Queda to be even more lethal. Keep in mind iron dome was active protecting against missle attacks at great expense to the USA and Israel. Look if you want to go cry about peace in Gaza waive the Palestinian flag there. You won’t last long promoting peace or a two state solution some Palestinian will probably kill you for being an American, or a Christian or for say the word Peace and Israel in the same sentence. That is not brain washing it is the truth.
What happens after BDS? A “Palestinian” Caliphate? Sharia Law? Round up all the Jews and Christians that laid down their weapons and kill them? After all “Palestinians” are known for their great governance, chratitable, freedom loveing
and open society accepting all religions and peoples. Try building a christian church in downtown Gaza next time you are in town.
Dan Craig
I believe Crimes Against Humanity was recently charged against Hamas in Gaza
America Firster
Makes sense. Hamas killed one Israeli civilian during the Israeli assault last summer and Israel killed well over 1,000 Gazan civilians. I can see where you would think Hamas the criminal given these facts.
Dan Craig
I find it interesting that you BDS ‘ers will complain about Palestinians dying in such small numbers and totally ignore huge numbers like:
Estimates of deaths in the Syrian Civil War, per opposition activist groups, vary between 131,235[1][2] and 300,518.[3] On 15 January 2015, the United Nations put out an estimate of 220,000 that had died in the war.[4]
Of which sime 11,000 are children some arrested and tortured probably usung Sharia Law as a back drop
But you only focus on Israel because you believe Hamas massive marketing engine
Dan Craig
From vantage point Hamas started it and some people got killed next time stay In Gaza No IDF would have been there without provocation it is that simple
Manley Kiefer
Nice to see through blind eyes. How long would you wait if these thousands of”harmless” missiles fell near your home?
America Firster
Now its thousands that fall into one area? What does it tell you that you have to lie to support your position?
Dan Craig
At least Israel has a justice system. Here is a sample of Palestinian Justice System:
Hamas militants seized several Fatah members and
threw one of them, Mohammed Sweirki, an officer in the elite Palestinian
Presidential Guard, off the top of the tallest building in Gaza, a 15-story
apartment building. In retaliation, Fatah militants attacked and killed the imam
of the city’s Great Mosque, Mohammed al-Rifati. They also opened fire on the
home of Prime Minister Ismail Haniy
Dan Craig
How nicely will arrests go when “palestine” is under sharia law, and people are arrested, stoned
to death, beheaded and have their hands cut off etc.
Being arrested in the middle of the night might be mild compared to Sharia Law.
How many “Palestinians” will die and maimed then?
Manley Kiefer
Fisnik, I believe you and many others base their views on pure emotions and don’t or don’t want to understand Israel’s viewpoints and the facts. Which other country takes in the enemy for medical treatment and treat heads of states of their enemies with expensive, first class medical treatment? Children in Israel are loved and cared for. These are just examples. True, Israel can’t be a complete democracy or permit a two state solution in its territory if it wants to survive. These facts are obvious for anyone to understand if they are unbiased.
Dan Craig
We(Jews) have faced down the most extreme odds to be here today, it sickens me thay I even have to defend yet again a Jewish existence.
I can’t tell all of you the Millions of Jews killed at the hands of Christians and Muslims. We are SICK and TIRED of being your pawns in your meat grinders. A simple thing like BDS is nothing to us.
America Firster
“Everytime you give Hamas and PA money they spend it on Bombs, Rockets, Guns and Tunnels”.
Such delusional projection. The US taxpayer unwittingly for the most part, gives over $3 billion per year to Israel which uses most of that money to buy the latest in American military hardware. We give Hamas nothing and Hamas has no military whatsoever.
“Palestinians? They spend millions on plans to attack Israel”.
More of the same. Israel has in fact attacked Gaza half a dozen times in the past ten years.
Dan Craig
You are wrong on all counts. You are not
1) US aid Palestinian territories $457.40M
2) Aid to Israel enables the USA to have the technical equivalent of a massive aircraft carrier and weapons depot in the Middle East and fly over rights. By the way $3B is chump change. There are $billions arond the world with more than that stuck in the crack of their couch.
3) From Forbes Magazine quoted
“Israel also supplies Hamas with cash. It began transferring truckloads of cash
to Gaza after Hamas’ violent takeover of the territory in June 2007. The first
transfer of more than $51 million (delivered in Israeli shekels) was purportedly
to strengthen the influence of Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas in
the Gaza Strip and pay the salaries of 35,000 Palestinian Authority employees
then allegedly loyal to him. Among those employees, however, were Ismail Haniya,
the Hamas-appointed prime minister in Gaza, and Mahmoud Zahar, Hamas’ foreign
minister.”
“Zahar prides himself on many successful terrorist attacks against Israel, and
his position regarding Israel is clear. “All of Palestine, every inch of
Palestine belongs to the Muslims,” he has said.”
“demanding that Israel pay its own executioners goes way too far.”
America Firster
I see. $400 million to the Palestinians over 7 decades is a lot of money. $3 billion plus per year to the Israelis is chump change. Only in Zionist Occupied Brains would we see such a worldview
Dan Craig
Anti-Zionism is “politically correct antisemitism” and argues that the same way
Jews were demonized, Israel is demonized, the same way the right of Jews to
exist was denied, the right for Self-determination is denied from Israel, the
same way Jews were presented as a menace to the world, Israel is presented as a
menace to the world.
Zionism and Israel are the same thing. Zionism is good. It is something all mankind
can be proud of. I am proud to call my self a Zionist. God Bless Israel and
the IDF.
Zionism is good for the economy Israel has a GNP larger than the Spain
What do you call the Christians that conquered Spain from Moors? Christianists? Maybe Spain
should give up land to the Muslims so they can form a Caliphate.
Manley Kiefer
I don’t think the Spaniards would relish being under the Cordovan (Muslim) Caliphate for almost seven centuries again.
ivanpope
Zionism dispossed the occupants of the land and Zionism continues to dispossess the occupants of the land. Jews are just as racist as anyone else, they are not different, surely that’s the point. However, for some reason Israel thinks it is acceptable to privelege the Jewish population above the non-Jewish population and certainly above the original occupants of the land. You can get all visionary and messianic about it, but the simple truth is that the Israeli state wishes the Palestinians would just disappear and the Palestinians won’t forget how they were dispossesed.
Dan Craig
The United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine in late 1947 led to the Jordanian civil war,
the end of Mandatory Palestine, and the Israeli Declaration of Independence on
14 May 1948. The Jordanian Civil War that began in September 1970 and ended in July
of 1971. The conflict was fought between the two major components of the
Jordanian population, the Palestinians, represented by the Palestine Liberation
Organisation (PLO) under the leadership of Yasser Arafat, and the native
Jordanians, represented by the Jordanian Armed Forces under the leadership of
King Hussein. At its core the civil war sought to determine if Jordan would
be ruled by the Palestine Liberation Organisation or the Hashemite Monarchy.
The war resulted in the deaths of thousands of people, the vast majority
Palestinian. Armed conflict ended with the expulsion of the PLO leadership
and thousands of Palestinian fighters to Lebanon. King Hussein feared an independent
West Bank under PLO administration would threaten the autonomy of his Hashemite kingdom.
Arafat later claimed that the Jordanian army killed between 10,000 and 25,000
Palestinians, although more conservative estimates put the number between 1,000
and 2,000
Sounds to me like Israel is not the problem. Maybe you need to ask Jordan
to take their Palestinians back? How “Palestinians” lost their homes
in Jordan?
Dan Craig
Try living as a Jew in any arab country you will be a 2nd or 3rd class citizen here is the pecking order Muslim men, Muslim women , Camels, dogs, Christians, and some where below all that Jewe if you are lucky and they don’t kill you
You deridev Israel and say nothing about any other country kinda interesting maybe you should work at the UN
Laura Egendorf
Try being gay in an Arab country! Oh, these worthless college hypocrites.
Dan Craig
Laura you are spot on and until these Muslim countries respect human diversityand rights we will be in conflict
Dan Craig
The Israeli military has provided estimates that Hamas spent around $30 to $90 million, and poured 600,000 tons of concrete, in order to build three dozen tunnels.[22][23] Some tunnels were estimated to have cost $3 million to construct.[24][25]
Dan Craig
Btw Israel can get loan guarantee from other sources and loan guarantees are not actual loans only guarantee that the loan will be paid Israel still must pay the loan
Dan Craig
Zionism that is the political correct way to say you hate Jews and are anti Semitic or you have swallowed Hamas thinking and now speak their ideology of hate
Zionism is Israel incarnate you can’t separate the two and jews have their homeland God bless Israel the one place on earth a Jew can be a jew without racism or being disrespected by Christians and Muslims
Here is a news flash we are tired of being murmured by Christians and Muslims and we won’t take it any more boycott divest and sit on that and stew we have had enough of your kindness and generosity we have been to your ghettos been to your programs been to your inquisitions been to your concentration camps and died In The millions even the Romans killed the most famous jew of all time Jesus We are done the conversation about if we will be allowed a tiny speck of land is over you will have to kill all of us to get one square yard of dirt that is how I feel
America Firster
Here’s a news flash. The world is getting sick of your hate-filled, violent, always whining about imagined victimhood, racist little culture.
Dan Craig
How much do you think 600,000 tons of concrete , wood bracing and labor to build a vast tunnel complex is costing the PA? I think about $90M money that could have been spent on agriculture as fruits and vegetables used to grow in Gaza during Israeli control now what grows is hate and body counts so you decide which culture you want to stand with bombs or butter?
Dan Craig
How about this you BDS people petition PA and Hamas to publish a government accounting office report of spending like the GSA office does in the Interests of transparency and authenticated by a trusted non Arab 3rd party you see any harm in that? Or wll Abbas and his cronies be sending cash from graft and corruption to a Swiss acct? Or they will refuse but you all help them get rich just like Arafat did
Ask where is your money going? To Terrorism or a private bank acct?
Mochica
There
is no possibility of a two state solution when Netanyahu, previous PM
and future PM fight it and don’t keep their part of cease-fires,
agreements to allow GAZANs to fish, etc. etc. The West Bank is
chopped up into fragments of Palestinians with roads exclusively for
Israeli occupiers (settlements) making it nearly impossible to get from
one Palestinian town to another. How in the WORLD can you imagine a Two
State solution…. Israel has planned this and it IS GOING TO IMPLODE
and only a ONE STATE solution will happen… What goes around, comes
around.
Dan Craig
Let the Arabs states absorb the Palestinians they have 98% of the land mass as compared to Israel more than enough for ALL the Palestinians
America Firster
Why can’t the Palestinians live in their homes on their own? Let the Ashkenazis return to Khazar and leave the rest of us alone.
Dan Craig
Well you know what it’s just not going to happen that way. You will have to kill every last jew in Israel to achieve that. And any jews living outside of Israel will pour more money than you can ever count into the State of Israel and we will flow into Israel like a monsoon rain and sweep the every last hill, valley and stream with jews. We will raise up and take arms against all those against us.
Did you know the in the Koran it clearly states that Israel belongs to the Jews? Did you know that Jerusalem is never even mentioned in the Koran?
Which way do muslims face when they pray? To Mecca! Which way do Jews face ? To Jerusalem.
Would Catholics allow a Mosque to be built on top of their most sacred chapel in the Vatican? And yet the muslims slap the jews in the face and place a mosque on top of the mostly holiest siteto the Jews in the Temple mount in Jerusalem and we put up and take the insult. Keep insulting us. Keep trying to kill us. We appreciate the love and kindness it is paid back 10X.
Send the Palestinians back to Jordan, Syria and Lebanon where they came from or back to the Ottoman Empire in Turkey.
America Firster
Headlong into oblivion. Just hope you crazy whiners don’t take too many of us in the sane community with you
Dan Craig
Good now leave us in Peace We will gladly stay with in our current borders Pray to our God and keep to ourselves I wish you Peace shalom Aleichem.
But something tells me you can not rest until more jews are attacked and the State of Israel must defend itsel. Please don’t whine after the next attack at the Palestinian death to or the disproportionate response as we have 2000 years of turning the other cheek to make up
Manley Kiefer
There is not going to be a two state solution on Israel’s land.
Uofconn Harassment
actually hamas is a resistance movement not a terrorist organization, and have openly stated in nan
interview with charlie rose this past summer they would work with any
palestinian government that recognizes israel.
Dan Craig
Yeah and my grandma is a revolutionary with a bad addiction to AK 47’s
You can rationalize anything you would make a great SS Officer
I can feel the Hamas love for Israel from my fox hole at night with my night vision sniper rifle when they crawl like moles out of tunnels thinking they are unseen to spead joy and harmony at 2000 ft/ sec
Laura Egendorf
Don’t bother with these people. Wesleyan has been taken over by the hypocrite anti-semites. I’m starting to be ashamed I ever attended.
Dan Craig
I believe we must fight and show them their ignorance
Wesleyan can reverse it erroneous decisions they are following in the foot steps of the Universities in Germany under the Nazi regime and it will burn them
Henry Rops
Palestine was a Roman name imposed on Jews’ land. Palestine is bogus
America Firster
Excellent reason for Jews from Europe to come into Palestine and violently remove 80% of the indigenous peoples and steal their land and homes. What gave these Europeans the right to do this? Well, Palestine was a name given to the land by the Romans 2,000 years ago. Who could argue with that?
Dan Craig
Jews have been in the land of Israel for 3000 years continuosuly, while there was a Diaspora some remained.. That is archaeological fact. And undoubtedly some of the Palestinians actually have Jewish ancestors who converted to Islam vs being threated with extinction.
The So-Called “Palestinians'” Alleged Rights
In 1920, at San Remo, the Jewish People were recognized by the Principal Allied
War Powers in WWI as owning the political rights to Palestine
The competing Arab claims also submitted at the Paris Peace talks were
implicitly denied in Palestine, but recognized in the rest of the Middle East,
i.e. Syria & Mesopotamia and, indirectly, later in Transjordan.
The Allies had conquered this area from the Ottoman Empire in a defensive war.
Their ruling was based on the historic association of the Jewish People with
Palestine (the name given to the area by the Romans) in which there had been a
continuous uninterrupted Jewish presence for 3,700 years.
In 1922, this political right was recognized by 52 nations but limited to
Palestine west of the Jordan River. The rights were required to be placed in
trust until the Jewish People attained a majority of population in the area in
which they were to exercise sovereignty and were capable of exercising
sovereignty in that area.
In 1948, the trustee abandoned its legal dominion over the political rights that
were in trust and the Jewish People had established unified control over
Palestine west of the Jordan River with some exceptions.
Just after it had declared independence in that year, the Jewish People’s State
of Israel was invaded. Judea, Samaria, and East Jerusalem were invaded by the
Arab Legion supplied and led by the British; they became illegally occupied by
Jordan, and Gaza was similarly invaded and illegally occupied by Egypt.
The Palestinians are an undifferentiated part of the Arab people who were
invented as a separate “people” by the Soviet dezinformatsiya in 1964.
By 1950 the Jews had also attained a Jewish majority population in the remaining
area. With both a majority population in the area governed and the ability to
exercisesovereignty, the political rights to that area vested in the Jews so
they had legal dominion over them and the Jews were then sovereign in that area.
Following 1967, the Jewish People had annexed East Jerusalem; in 1967, it also
liberated the other areas that had been illegally occupied. Later, in 2005 the
Jews withdrew from Gaza.
It follows that now the Jewish People have sovereignty over Judea, Samaria and
East Jerusalem as well as the territory within the Green Line because they own
and have legal dominion over the political rights to these areas and have
established unified control over them, even though they have not as yet asserted
that sovereignty except for East Jerusalem.
International Law does recognize the right of political self-determination in
the case of colonies external to the areas from which they are ruled. This is
referred to as “decolonization”. International Law supports decolonization. The
quest for the right of political-self determination of a group of people in an
area internal to the boundaries of a state that has sovereignty is referred to
as “secession”. A secession would violate the territorial integrity of a
sovereign state.
Effective as of 1976, International Law recognized the right of a “people” to
political self- determination, but it did not provide any indication of where
that rule would be applied. In any event, the so-called “Palestinians” do not
meet the test of a legitimate “people” but are, in fact, an undifferentiated
part of the Arab people residing in Palestine who were invented as a separate
“people” by the Soviet dezinformatsiya in 1964.
In a decolonization, International Law gives preference to self-determination
over territorial integrity. International Law regarding secession of an area
internal to a state is a wholly different matter. The right to secede is not a
general right of political self-determination for all peoples or nations. It is
limited by the territorial integrity of a sovereign state. The unilateral right
to secede, i.e. the right to secede without consent from a sovereign state, if
it is to be recognized, say most commentators on International Law, should be
understood as a remedial right only, a last resort response to serious
injustices. In addition, those wanting to secede must show they have the
capability of exercising sovereignty.There is no evidence of serious injustice
to support such a remedial right for the Arabs residing in Judea, Samaria and
East Jerusalem although they have long complained of perpetual victimhood. Nor
do they have the capability to exercise sovereignty such as unified control over
the area they wish to have designated as an independent state.It follows that
the so called “Palestinians” have no right to political self determination under
International Law
The Arab armies were miraculously defeated by a tiny handful of Jewish
defenders. The Arabs attempted again to destroy Israel in 1967, and were
humiliated in only six days, in which they lost the lands that they had
previously stolen and usurped in 1948. Those lands included Judea and Samaria,
which comprise the biblical and ancestral Jewish heartland, tracing its history
back some 4,000 years.
Now the world forgets such empirical history and prefers to name the ancestral
Jewish territory, the “West Bank”, which was illegally occupied by the Jordanian
Arabs for 19 years from 1948 until its liberation in 1967.
In all those years, when Jordan occupied Judea and Samaria and Egypt occupied the Gaza Strip, neither of them created a “Palestinian” state, since the still non-existing Palestinians would have never claimed their alleged right to have their own state.
Randy Abbassi
okay… get kicked out of YOUR house and then tell me all the reasoning behind it matters to you or not.
Dan Craig
I know all about it my parents gave up their homes to the Nazis during holocaust
ivanpope
Lot’s of handy propaganda there, but the first question is, who gave the Principal Allied War Powers the political rights to Palestine? The rights to Palestine were never anybody’s to give away, they were the rights of the indigenous population who were waiting to be de-colonised. Instead the arch-colonisers decided, against all practice, to offer part of Palestine to an alien entity.
For sure, there were Jews in Palestine and there could have been a democratic nation established, but no, the Palestinians had to be driven out so Israel could be established.
Dan Craig
The indigenous people are the Jewish People. You can read about it in the Torah handed down in exact form since 600BC it clearly documents ownership and stands at a written record of ownership and settlement.
The Turks imported people from all over the Ottoman empire because the did not trust the local arabs, so that is how those muslim arabs from all over the Ottoman empire got there.
Dan Craig
The League of Nations established a Jewish Homeland during the British Mandate. That and
land was purchased by Jews using money they had raised and the United Nations sanctioned
the State of Israel.
From the 1880s to the 1930s, most Jewish land purchases were made in the coastal
plain, the Jezreel Valley, the Jordan Valley and to a lesser extent the
Galilee. This was due to a preference for land that was cheap and without
tenants. There were two main reasons why these areas were sparsely populated.
The first reason being when the Ottoman power in the rural areas began to
diminish in the seventeenth century, many people moved to more centralized areas
to secure protection against the lawless Bedouin tribes. The second reason
for the sparsely populated areas of the coastal plains was the soil type. The
soil, covered in a layer of sand, made it impossible to grow the staple crop of
Palestine, corn.
This is the same as the USA, they bought Manhattan from the Indians for $24 in beads
Do you think the USA is giving back Manhattan
after investing $Billions?? They bought it they own
it. Next up the USA went to war with the Indian Nations, of course the USA broke every treaty
they ever made lets try and not think about that
too hard. But it is what it is.
Manley Kiefer
We’re living in a country that was stolen by cheating, lies and force from the only indigenous peoples living here. Unfortunately, it seems that might makes right.
Dan Craig
Exactly true. I don’t see these BDS’ers whining about the Sioux, Cheyenne, Navajo, Apache, and Mohicans ….and how badly they were mistreated and how the USA stole their land, broke every treaty we ever signed with the Indians, the USA Gov. lost court battles that went to the Supreme court. The USA Gov. owes compensation the Sioux…where is that money??? Mr Obama? Mr. Congress. Will you give back the Black Hills?
What about the Apartheid System of the Indian Reservations which are sovereign nations inside the USA , you are not
in the USA on reservation land.
Seriously not 1 tear? Not even a whimper from the leftest BDS? While they literally stand on stolen ground like hyprocrites??? It makes me sick.
America Firster
I don’t think that a genocide that took place in America in the 1600 through the 1800s justifies supporting the genocide that is taking place today in Palestine.
Mark Burpham
Well done, at least you were allowed to discuss the situation, let’s hope some enlightenment comes from it, on both sides. Israel can not keep pumping out the same platitudes and expect to be believed any more. Bibi isn’t looking for peace any more it’s no down to us, the people of the world to have peace thrust upon him, to treat people with the respect they deserve and to stop the apartheid system that hinders peace.
Mochica
There
is no possibility of a two state solution when Netanyahu, previous PM
and future PM fight it and don’t keep their part of cease-fires,
agreements to allow GAZANs to fish, etc. etc. The West Bank is
chopped up into fragments of Palestinians with roads exclusively for
Israeli occupiers (settlements) making it nearly impossible to get from
one Palestinian town to another. How in the WORLD can you imagine a Two
State solution….There is NO CONTIGUOUS LAND MASS to call a STATE.!!! Israel has planned this and it IS GOING TO IMPLODE
and only a ONE STATE solution will happen… What goes around, comes
around.
Dan Craig
Plenty of land in ALL the other Arab States more than enough for 4X the Palestinians….
da5650
It’s not just people of the Jewish faith we all have to face the reality of the atrocities that are being perpetrated against the Palestinians in the name of national security. The most dangerous of the non believers of the reality on the ground are fundamental christians.
DavidL
“You can’t say that here.”
That pretty much sums up much of what is wrong with Wesleyan. Pathetic.
PM Fiorini
When did the “left” become jew-hating anti-Semites???
Laura Egendorf
I graduated 20 years ago but I no longer give money to Wesleyan because of you little anti-semitic pieces of shit.